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Mantak Chia – The Universal Healing Tao

Interview by Iain McNay

Iain:  Hello, and welcome again to conscious TV.  My name is Iain McNay and my guest today in the studio is Mantak Chia.  Hi Mantak.

Mantak:  Hi!

Iain:  And Mantak has written many books.  I’m told he has written over 40 books.  I’ve just got a few here to give you a taste: Tao’s Way to Transform Stress into Vitality; The Multi-Orgasmic Man; Chi Nei Tsang, which is chi-massage for the vital organs; Iron Shirt Chi Kung; and The Inner Structure of Tai Chi.  And that’s just five of about forty books, but it gives you an idea.  And Mantak has created a school called The Universal Healing Tao, which is his main teaching.  He lives in Bangkok and is over to visit us in London.  So I’d like to start at the beginning when you were six years old, and I was reading that you started to meditate with monks. You sat and meditated with monks at six years old.

Mantak:  Yes, I mean in Thailand there’s so many monks and temples, and my house was surrounded by three or four temples.  The temple was also a playground for us.  So we would go there and see a lot of monks, see them meditating, and I was very interested in that.  Mhm, there’s something there.  So I liked to sit and eventually learned something from the monks: their simple breathing and how to quiet the mind down.  And that’s how I started that way.  I mean you see them every day, so you learn something from them.

Iain:  But was that normal for a kid at six years old to be drawn to that? 

Mantak:  I think that at that time I was interested in it and was curious what they were doing there, you know.  And the monks also think that usually the children like to run around, but I said I was interested in sitting and meditating and they were interested in teaching me.

Iain:  And what did you feel when you sat with them?  What do you remember were your first experiences there?

Mantak:  I would sit and meditate, and actually, children can sit and see colours, see things.  It’s very simple when they quiet their minds and they sit down.  So I sat down, I saw something.  I felt something.  That’s how I got interested in this kind of practice.

Iain:  And were you aware at that stage you were feeling energy? 

Mantak:  Ah no.

Ian:  No.

Mantak:  I saw mostly some colours, some visions, mostly I saw some things.  Many children see them also.
Iain: And then when you were at grammar school you were learning Thai boxing.

Mantak:  Yes.

Iain:  Which sounds very different from sitting quiet and meditating.  It’s quite active, isn’t it?  Quite aggressive in a way.

Mantak:  When you’re young you also want some more active thing to learn.

Iain:  Yeah.  And you enjoyed that?

Mantak:  Later on I learned more Tai Chi, more internal work, more meditation.  Like Tai Chi we call “moving meditation.”  And also I learned that you have the martial art aspect of Tai Chi.  That is also a more soft style, more internal style of practise.

Iain: So something was drawing you to explore these different traditions and different techniques, if you like.  Were you aware at that point you were being taken on a journey? 

Mantak:  Yes.  When I was young I was very interested in all these kinds of things because it is a culture in Asia, and wherever you go you see people doing Tai Chi, doing Chi Kung, mediation.  There’s a culture around there like that.  So when you see them you are like, “They’re very interesting.  What are they doing?”  And when they do Tai Chi, they move very slow.  So it’s very interesting to explore what they’re doing.  And so I learned more and more, and eventually I got to what I wanted to learn.

Iain:  So it was like a journey from the meditation very young and then the boxing and then Aikido and Tai Chi and Chi Kung.  So when you got to what you want to learn, what was that you wanted to learn?

Mantak:  When I studied in Hong Kong, there were many novels talking about the Tao Masters living in the mountains, and they know how to transmit power and energy and all these things, you know.  So I said I was very interested in that.  And chi, you know, the feeling chi.  And I think maybe I just saw that in a book, in a novel.  And one day my friends from Thailand and I we’re sitting there and eating, and we talked about chi and we couldn’t believe in that.  And the people at the next table told me they call one of the men a Senior Class Monk. So he came over and he said: “You want to feel chi?  I can bring you to my Master and he can show you the chi.” I said, “Oh, very interesting.”  So we made an appointment tomorrow at about 10 o’clock.  So I was there, but of all my friends nobody came.

Iain:  You were the only one.

Mantak:  The only one there. So after that we waited until 11 o’clock.  Nobody showed.  So finally I went with him to see his Master.  So the Master looked at me and said, “What happened to your friends?”  And I said, “I don’t know.  We made an appointment to come here and they’re not here.”  So he said:  “You’re interested to feel chi?”  I said, “Yes.”  So he said, “Okay, I’ll teach you a very simple meditation.  You sit and meditate.”  And he put a finger on my navel.

Iain: [pointing to his navel] Put it here?

Mantak:  Yeah, put it right into my navel and said, “You focus on here, and if you feel anything, you come back to tell me.”  That’s all.

Ian:  Right.

Mantak:  So I said, “Oh, interesting.”  So I went home.  So I sat down to meditate and after that I felt warm in my navel.  And it was so warm, so warm, so warm, so warm.  And it started to move.

Iain:  And did you have your finger here [pointing to his navel] while you were meditating?

Mantak:  Yeah, he told me that you touch there first, because this one is the energy center.  So if you start with that, you can have a lot of chi.  So when I touched and focused there, it was getting warm, warm, warm.  And it started to move in orbit.  I felt it go up to the crown and come back down in my tongue.  Because the tongue is like a circuit.  When you put the tongue up, the tongue vibrates.  It’s like when you take a battery and touch your tongue and ddddd – it vibrates.  I said, “Very interesting.”  So it came right down to me and moved and it moved again.  So when I focused on it, it kept on moving, moving.  So I said, “This is very interesting.”  And so the next day I went there to tell him that I felt the chi, I felt energy moving.  And he said: “Oh, this is very good; you are very quick.”  So he started to teach me more meditation: the inner alchemy of practice.  That is called the Tao practice – inner alchemy.  So the inner alchemy is the transforming of the material into the immaterial.  So that’s where the Tao’s concerned that we have a physical [body], so if somebody says the heart or the liver, it’s material.  But out of that they’re producing something.  For example, we say if you smile or you go deeply into your heart there’s a physical [location], you can picture them, you know the location.  When you meditate and touch [them], you start to feel love coming out.  So that is one energy.

Iain: Okay.

Mantak:  And you can have hatred come out.  That is a negative energy.  But in the Tao we always talk about yin/yang – negative/positive – but they empower each other.

Iain:  It’s one part of the same circle.

Mantak:  One part of the same cycle.  So when I learned this one… I also grew up in a Christian family.

Iain:  Yes.
Mantak:  What I learned is that the Devil is negative.  The positive is God.  But in the Tao it says no: negative and positive empower each other. They don’t fight.  So the yin pushes the yang.  The yang pushes the yin.  And that’s it.

Iain:  So when you first heard this about the Devil and God being part of the same cycle, circle, what was your response to that?

Mantak:  I mean, I was a Christian ever since I was born because my family is Christian, so I grew up in a church.  Actually I was born during World War II when they bombed Thailand, Bangkok.  The Americans bombed Bangkok.  So we knew that the Americans would not bomb the church.  So my mother, who was a missionary, gave birth to me in a church because they wouldn’t bomb the church.  So that’s why I learned about the Devil and God.  So when you have the Devil and God, you have to have war and fighting.

Iain:  That’s right.

Mantak:  But when you have Yin/Yang – and actually the West discovered the same thing: pH balance, which is when the acid and alkaline are equal and balanced.

Iain:  Yeah, if there’s too much acid…

Mantak:  Not good.

Iain:  Or too much alkaline…

Mantak:  Not good.

Iain:  Not good.  They need to be in a balance.

Mantak:  In a balance.

Iain:  So I’m just very interested in when you first met the Master.  This was Master I Ying?

Mantak:  I Ying [?] – meaning One Cloud.

Iain:  White Cloud.

Mantak:  White Cloud, One Cloud.

Iain:  One Cloud, okay.  So when you first met him, he was obviously impressed, first of all you turned up – the other guys didn’t – and then you did your chi practise…

Mantak:  Yes.

Iain:  And you could tangibly feel it and then at that point did he decide to work with you?

Mantak:  Yes.  He said: “You’re very quick.  I think we have good karma together.”  And he felt that I was very interesting and that I liked this kind of practise and at that time I was quite young, about 14 or 15 years old. 

Iain: Wow.

Mantak:  And he said, “You are interesting,” because I had already had many other practises, so I was interesting to him.  It came to a point that I thought I needed more internal work.

Iain:  Okay, also I want to talk briefly about him, because I watched a DVD where you talk briefly about him, and it seems that he went on remarkable journeys to find the information from his Masters.

Mantak:  Yes.

Iain:  And from what I remember, he would have to walk for several days in the mountains with no food and no tent, and then the Master somehow took that as a kind of commitment from him, so they would start to teach him.

Mantak:  Yeah, he actually spent 30 years travelling around all the temples in China.  But he thought he couldn’t learn from them because they had a lot of rituals, initiations, and very little practise.  So he went from temple to temple and he said, “This is not the practise I need.”  So later on he studied with one Master who told him that if you really want to learn some real practises, you have to go to the mountains to look for those Masters.  So he decided to just go.  At that time, he did not know about anything, so he went to the mountains with a big backpack with everything, you know, with food, with everything.  So he walked for a while, but it was so heavy that he had to eat all the food.  By the time he got to the very deep mountains, he had no more food.  So he had to get out.  So finally one day he was going to the mountains and met an old man.  And he talked to him: “I want to see the Tao Masters.”  He said: “Yes, you can see them, but you’re not going to be like this with your big backpack.  You have to have nothing.”  He said: “How can I survive?”  He said: “You have to learn how to eat by digging up roots, drinking the dew – that’s it.  You cannot keep on carrying the backpack like this.”  So he said: “Oh, that’s why I cannot go deep in the mountains, because you have to keep on carrying this thing.”  So he started to learn how to dig up roots and herbs, to find food where it was and to drink the water [that was there].  So he didn’t carry anything anymore.

Iain:  But did he know where the Masters were?

Mantak:  So he started to ask and then finally went deeper and deeper into the mountains without carrying any food.  So finally he met quite a few Masters, and a lot of them were out of the body.
Iain:  They were out of the body!

Mantak:  Yeah, they would just sit there out of the body.

Iain:  So they physically have a body?

Mantak:  They have a body and they’re out of the body. 

Iain:  Okay.

Mantak:  So he went to one cave, then another cave, then another cave, and finally he went to the cave where he learned from some people who told him, “You have to massage the body, clean out the body.  If the Master comes back, then he’ll help you.”  So he massaged the body [left behind by one of the Grand Masters] and after that what happened to my Master was [the Grand Master came back to his body and said] “Oh, you’re doing a good job on me” [Mantak laughs] because of the dust and everything you know.  So he said: “You did a good job on me, so what do you want?”  So he [my Master] said: “I want to learn what you are doing.”  So [the disembodied Grand Master] said [to himself]: “Okay, maybe this is my last chance to come back here.”  And [the Grand Master] started to teach him.  So he [my Master] learned a lot of practices and integrated a lot of what he knew.  We have nine levels of internal alchemy.  And he meditated and got to a level of Breatharian for a while.

Iain:  So that means he can live a long time without eating…

Mantak:  …without eating, yeah…

Iain: …or drinking, in fact.

Mantak:  Yes.  I mean, they usually drink the sap of the pine tree, but that’s all.  In the morning, you need something [makes drinking movement] and that’s all you need.  Because when you go into a [deep] meditation and you have a lot of chi, you start to train the body.  And he started to train the body not to need a lot of food to maintain it, because in the jungle you cannot [eat very much]. 

Iain:  Mmm, yeah.  And then your Master, the White Cloud Master, started to teach you what he’d learned from his Masters.

Mantak:  Yes, later on because of the Second World War, the Japanese took over Manchuria because he stayed in the White Mountain close to Manchuria and the Tibet area.

Iain:  Yes.

Mantak:  Okay, so that place is close to the Himalaya. [Because outside is very cold, he needed a place that was warm enough so he went down into the mountain where it is warmer and the temperature is constant enough, like a refrigerator and you can put a body there so that it doesn’t decay.] That’s why they [the Masters] always find that place [with constant temperature] is the best place to do that.  But when [he found out that] the Japanese were coming… one day he wanted to go out to see the villages below.  And he [left the inside of the mountain] ...and he, he go up and stayed on a tree.  He stayed on a tree and just meditated on the tree.

Iain:  He was staying on a tree, meditating?

Mantak:  Yes, staying.

Mantak:  So in the morning all the Japanese soldiers surrounded him because they were camping right around the whole tree.  And he was up there for many days.  So he stayed up there not eating and no peepee also.  Otherwise he’d get killed.  So because of the practise he did, he just stayed there and meditated and didn’t move.  And later on when the Japanese left, he came down and [found that] he could not go back to the mountain anymore.  [the body] took over so he had to travel with people retreating into Hong Kong.  So he stayed in Hong Kong.  And I met him in Hong Kong when I went there to study.

Iain:  It must have been an amazing experience for you, being so young, 14 years old, and you’re learning from this incredible Master.

Mantak:  Yes, I think I was very fortunate.  My Senior Class Monk, he had a hole in his heart…

Iain: A hole in the heart.

Mantak:  A hole in the heart.  And so he always fainted.  So no matter what he did, at that time there was no operation for fixing the heart.  So he took him and taught him until he was okay.  But the problem that he had was that he could not learn any higher level.  And it was a pity, you know.  So when I studied he’s my Senior Class Monk, but later on my Master told me that he had a heart problem.  A valve was not closed.  So he could not learn higher levels because on a higher level you need a lot of energy to go in.  So that’s why I learned more practice.

Iain:  So at this point you were absorbing incredible knowledge and experience and then I think, shortly after that, you opened a center in Hong Kong, is that right?

Mantak:  No.  In Thailand.  In Bangkok.

Iain:  In Thailand, sorry, yeah.

Mantak:  Yeah, but my Master told me the last time I left, “Now you’re a Master, and you can decide what you want to do, but I tell you that one day you’ll go and teach the foreigners.  But you have to promise that you will teach the Chinese people first before you teach the foreigners.”  And I said, “Okay,” and then I never thought that I would go abroad, I never thought about that, you know.  So I started teaching the Chinese people in Bangkok.

Iain:  Right.

Mantak:  Yeah, and when the Vietnam War came and the Americans retreated and my sister, who is an American citizen said: “You better leave.”  So I left. [there was fear that Thailand would be invaded] I never thought I would go to America.  So I went to America and at that time I wanted to teach this.  So I started teaching in New York, Chinatown, to the Chinese people only, for five years.  Right in New York, Chinatown.

Iain:  I remember when I was in New York for a time you could see, this was a few years ago, you could see the Chinese people in the parks, some of them doing Qui-Gung in the morning.  So they took that with them, didn’t they?

Mantak:  Yeah, they think that if you move in the morning, you get some energy, absorb the energy that we call chi.  In the West we call it bio-electromagnetic power.  And it’s very interesting.  We know that there is electromagnetic power outside.  So bio-electromagnetic power and electromagnetic power are similar.  The difference is the “bio.”  That means a living thing knows how to use energy.  And that’s how we call chi.  So we draw in, breathe in the energy.  We’re producing chi.  But apparently when we learn how to draw in the energy around us and convert into the bio-electromagnetic power, we have more chi than just depending on food only.  So they call it Chi Kung.

Iain:  So I have this clear, I know I have through knowing a bit of acupuncture… just the basics.  I have meridians in my body.  And they can get blocked and somebody puts some needles in and that helps my flow more. 

Mantak:  Yes.

Iain:  So that’s an internal flow.  Now that in itself what I think you’re saying is connected to a larger energy body which is essentially my energy body and then that in turn is connected to a universal source of energy.  Is that how it all fits together?

Mantak:  Right.

Iain:  So with the Chi Kung that we see – now obviously these days it’s in every city.  Lots of people practise Chi Kung both in the East and the West.  So then it’s a question of somebody’s work on a different level, so they’re helping their own energy clearing the blocks.  They’re also recognizing their energy field.  And are they also then with Chi Kung connecting with the wider energy field?

Mantak:  Yeah, right.

Iain:  So all three levels are happening at the same time.

Mantak:  Right.  So the whole major thing that in the meditation that we do we call the energy meditation or we call needle-less meditation.  That means on the one level you feel the energy and you move the energy.  And it started to clear the blockages. This is how the Chinese Masters discovered all the channels, by meditating and they feel the energy run into the different channels, and later on they mapped out all these acupuncture points and the organ meridians.  Like when I mediate on the heart and you hold your fingers in a mudra [Mantak does so].  When you hold the fingers [this way], this is the heart meridian.  And you start to feel an energy running ssshhhhhhhhh into the meridian.

Iain:  But how do we get blocks in the first place?

Mantak:  The blockages are emotional.  That’s the number one. 

Iain:  So when you say emotional, it’s what we would call a negative emotion.

Mantak: Yes.

Iain:  Anger or frustration, stress...

Mantak:  It can be a positive emotion also.  So the whole Tao practice is: don’t get anything in excess, or too much.

Iain:  Not too much of anything, but what about happiness?  Can you have too much happiness?

Mantak:  Yes.

Iain:  Really?  Really?

Mantak:  When you have too much happiness, all the energy also overwhelms the heart and everything.  And it’s too much.  So the Tao practice is not too much and not too little.  When you’re extremely angry, that is not good.  So we call it “sin.”

Iain:  We all know that I think, yeah.

Mantak:  So extreme happiness also causes problems, like people can have so much love that everything gets crazy.

Iain:  It blows out the circuits…

Mantak:  It blows out everything, yes.  So you have to keep it balanced.  Negative and positive have to come into balance.  But nothing in excess.  Not too much.  Don’t go overboard.

Iain:  So how do you know, how does somebody know when it’s excess?  There are some obvious examples: you get angry or you get frustrated (you know, you’re in the car).  That’s obvious.  But is a little bit of anger okay sometimes?

Mantak:  Yes, we are human [laughs].  God also gets angry, and when God gets angry it’s terrible: he burns up the whole town.  He sends fire, burns the whole town and kills so many people.  So God also gets angry.  Okay, so in the Tao it’s very simple.  You start to learn to smile to yourself.

Iain:  Smile to yourself, okay.

Mantak:  Yeah, you have to classify where the organ comes from.  And the Taoists for thousands of years have divided each organ into positive and negative energy.  So for example we say the heart: you have love, joy, happiness – that is positive.  And you have hatred, impatience, hastiness – that is negative.

Iain:  That’s also in the heart.

Mantak:  In the heart.  So you need to find a balance.  There’s nothing wrong with hatred.  If I turn inside and feel I hate you – okay.  So I try to find a balance of love.  If I find a balance of love, I’m okay.

Iain:  But when you hate someone, that’s not so easy to find a balance of love.

Mantak:  Oh, but you have to find it.  You have to learn how to find a balance.

Iain: And how do you do that?

Mantak: The first thing we do is a meditation to separate the hatred out of the person.  Like the liver.

Iain:  That’s to do with anger, right?

Mantak:  Yeah, the liver stores anger, jealousy, envy, frustration, stress.  Now we know where this emotion comes from: the liver.

Iain:  Okay.

Mantak:  Kindness and generosity are also stored in the liver.  So now when we know that, when we meditate, we smile [at it], so the Tao says you must go into the material first.

Iain:  How do you smile to the liver?

Mantak:  The first thing is that you have to know the [physical] location.  And the next thing is that you have to learn what the liver looks like.  So those are two important things.  This was the secret of all the religions.  They give you a statue, a church, or a temple so you can hold that image in order to focus on it.  So now if we compare this to a modern thing: if you know the location – like you have a telephone number, a country code, city code – and you know how to hold the image of the organs: like you get a telephone number, and all you have to do is press the number and you dial and make a connection.  So it’s the same with the Tao.  So when you know the location, you hold a picture and smile at it, you make a connection.

Iain:  So you’re doing a visualization in your mind.

Mantak:  Actually, we don’t call it “visualization”; we call it “actualization” because you have a liver and you know the location, so the whole thing is to make an actualization, not a visualization.

Iain:  So you really connect with your liver.

Mantak:  You’re connecting with it, like you get a number and you press the number, you connect and the guy can be in Alaska or Himalaya, you still can make a connection with them because it’s a connection, a real connection.  So when you feel it, the next thing you have to understand is that the liver holds anger, jealousy, envy, frustration, stress.  And the positive side is kindness and generosity.  So when you’re looking inside you smile.  And you’re looking inside you and go deeper and you feel that hey, that guy make me angry.  How do you feel?  Or sometimes the guy pops up in front of you and you feel the anger, so we say a very simple way is you delete them.  It’s the memory, so if you look at memory and not sin, it’s something you can delete.  We’re like a computer and they always have a delete key and copy key.  And we have a very powerful copy key, but when it comes to the delete key, we don’t know where to find it.  So we’re looking for it, so we end up with confession, ask for forgiveness, all kinds of things like this.  But we don’t get it out.  Because we don’t really know where the anger comes from and how to deal with it.  So the Tao says the first thing is to smile; you have the person’s image in front of you and you separate the anger out.  If you don’t separate the anger out, the anger multiplies and there’s so much anger and one day you have to explode.  Out of anger, we make so many weapons in order to blow other people into pieces.

Iain:  So I see what’s happening is the anger on the inside manifests on the outside...

Mantak:  Outside, yes.

Iain:  …on a practical level

Mantak:  But as Einstein said: E = MC ², you cannot destroy energy; you can only transform it.  So now the Tao says to look at mother earth, a very simple thing.  If you put organic garbage into mother earth and then turn it into compost, it turns garbage into gold.  So we can transform the garbage into good fertilized soil.  It’s the same thing with the transformation of energy if you understand the alchemy part.  So I change the material into the immaterial, and then I change the immaterial into another energy.  So when I feel angry, I let go first.  There are a few levels: you smile, you’re sending love, joy, happiness from the heart.  So you always have to start from the heart first.  You multiply, you open your heart, receive more love, joy, and happiness from the universe.  We call this Unconditional Love, Universal Love, the Grace of the Universe.  The Tao [calls it] the Supreme Creator or the Source.  Or the Tao.  The job of the heart is to multiply: take in a lot and multiply it.  So the first thing is that you have to use this energy we call good, friendly.  So when you have a lot of anger you send love, joy, happiness – you wrap them around the liver and change the anger into love, into kindness, into generosity.  This is the first step.  Very simple.  Have more love, multiply it, and send this love; then you compost all this negative energy into positive energy.

Iain:  So really what we’re talking about is that when we have sickness in the body it’s usually emotions that are stagnant.

Mantak:  Yes, emotion causes sickness.

Iain:  Emotion causes sickness because the emotions are not moving, they are not flowing, is that right?

Mantak:  Yeah.

Iain:  Is it as simple as that?  Can it not also be hereditary in the genes or dietary related?

Mantak:  The whole thing is that if we think simple it works simple. For thousands of years the Taoists have helped the body of the human to transform.  It’s the natural way.  We transform.  So we look at anger: If I am sending good energy to transform it, it changes into good energy.  And also the Tao practise always likes to connect with the earth.  So when you have a lot of anger, you send it down to the mother earth and the mother earth will compost or recycle it and give us back good energy.  So that is very important.  So the Tao says: Don’t dump it into the space.  In the space it cannot transform.  It’s only accumalage.

Iain: So [it needs to] go down back to the earth…

Mantak:  Down.  So if you sit, relax, let go, let go.  Forgive, forget, let go.  Let go to mother earth, let mother earth transform it.  If people started to understand all this, we would not dump into space.  And humans cannot transform [it].  We have to go to the mother earth.  So in the Tao we say that heaven or the Father gives us the blessing.  But the mother earth gives us the health, the healing, the wealth and longevity.  This is what mother earth gives, so we have to go to the right channel to get it.  So the negative can transform through the earth. 

Iain:  Okay, so something I also want to talk to you about is that on conscious TV there’s a lot of people watching that are interested in self-realisation, in freeing themselves which really includes obviously freeing themselves from the effects of the emotions – but also freeing themselves to find out who they truly are. 

Mantak:  Yes.

Iain:  Does your energy work somehow connect in with that?

Mantak:  Yes.  The first thing you have to do is to clean your emotions out.  My Tao practice in China divides into 10 different branches.  My branch is called “a practical Tao,” meaning you just practice it; you don’t get involved with all the belief systems or other things like that.  So the first thing the Tao says is that we come in as a soul or spirit, and the soul-spirit is like a child.  Why do they need to take a physical [body]?  Because the physical [body] can produce energy to feed the soul.  So this soul-spirit is like a child; it needs a physical [body] in order to produce energy to feed them.  Otherwise they can remain like a child for millions and billions of years and never grow up.  So when a spirit comes into us, we have to feed it with chi, with energy.  You cannot feed a baby with a piece of steak.  They cannot grow.  You have to transform them with baby food first.  So if people come into this world and they don’t know anything about their soul-spirit, they eat, they drink, they get drunk, they have sex, take drugs and drain out all the energy until they die.  So their soul-spirit still remains like a child, and they have [drained all their] energy.

Iain:  They have not matured at all.

Mantak:  Yeah, they have not matured at all, so when they die, their soul-spirit just scatters.  So that’s why we have our Halloween day.

Iain:  Halloween.

Mantak:  Halloween, because what do we give to the ghosts?  We give them candy, okay?  So you give candy to a child.  So those are wandering ghosts because they have no purpose, they have no knowledge.  And they are hungry ghosts because nobody is producing the chi for them anymore.   And it’s a lost soul.  If you put a child in a jungle [all alone], it gets lost.

Iain:  So this chi, this is the key, isn’t it? 

Mantak:  The chi is the link between the physical and the soul.  So you must get enough chi to feed the soul and spirit, and the knowledge and wisdom is not [what you get from] a college or [knowledge from] Oxford.  It’s a knowledge from the stars, from the planets; they store a certain knowledge and wisdom that you can download.  Once you connect with them, you can download them.

Iain:  So for people watching, and indeed for me, we’ll personalise it.  How can I feel my chi now?

Mantak:  Okay, very simple.  Now everybody has chi, but we never go inwardly and focus on it.  For example, you go outside and feel sun, but if you get a magnifying glass, you condense the sun into one dot.  It becomes fire and it burns.  Now, the same is with chi running everywhere.  You have less chi or you have more chi [depending on] how you run your life.  Now, the first thing is that everybody has chi.  So you focus the mind’s eye and heart in one area [pointing to his navel].

Iain:  Can you, can you say now, where I can feel my chi now, is it?

Mantak:  Yes.

Iain:  Okay.

Mantak:  So if you focus down on your navel…

Iain:  So I’m to focus – do I close my eyes?

Mantak: Close your eyes.  The first thing is to lower your monkey mind down into your heart.

Iain:  I lower my what?

Mantak:  Monkey mind.

Iain:  The active mind.

Mantak:  The active mind.

Iain:  I’m lowering my mind into my heart.

Mantak:  And the first thing is to turn your eye inwardly and look into your heart.  So you know your location.  Hold the heart.  The next thing is that you have to stop this active mind by feeling something.

Iain:  Well at the moment my mind is fairly quiet, and I’m feeling the heart.

Mantak:  Yeah, so when you feel the heart, you feel love, joy…

Iain:  So I feel joy, love in my heart.

Mantak:  Right.  So when you feel it, your mind feels good.  It wants to stay. 

Iain:  Okay.

Mantak:  So there’s the first thing.  So when you feel love, feel joy, we call that loving chi, happy chi.  There is chi already.  Okay?  When you feel loving chi, happy chi, joy chi...

Iain:  So it’s a feeling of goodness; I can feel that.
Mantak:  It’s the goodness inside, that is the energy.  So now the next thing is you gather them together in the mind, so you give your mind power by creating a chi ball.  It’s like a basketball or a football.  So you have chi go in, but chi doesn’t get out.  Otherwise the chi comes in and goes out.

Iain:  So I’m in my heart and I’m feeling a ball in my heart, is that correct?

Mantak:  Yes, and you’re gathering the chi and you condense the chi, so all your happiness, all your chi is very condensed.  And when they’re condensed enough, it becomes like a fire.

Iain:  So it gets more intense.

Mantak:  More intense.  And you feel very intense.  You feel that you have so much loving fire, compassion fire.  Now you lower them down into the dantien, the navel, because inside the navel, below a little bit, there’s a place that stores the original energy – the energy from when you’re born.

Iain:  So it’s like the energy bank is down here [pointing to his navel].

Mantak:  Yes, and you can store energy, so when you touch there and you lower the loving fire, compassion fire, and you start to focus right in there.  Now you also create another chi ball.  So you give a command: chi go in, don’t get out.  So you gather a chi ball, command the chi to come in, condense it, and make it stay without getting out.  So we ask the chi: “Stay with me, stay, don’t leave.”

Iain:  So you speak to the chi.

Mantak:  You speak to the chi and tell it to stay with me.  And you condense the chi, and you start to feel chi.  Now when you feel chi you spin it in your mind’s eye.

Iain:  When you say spin you mean go round…

Mantak:  Moving it forward.  So you keep on spinning.  Now exhale spin, inhale, exhale spin and you start to feel something warm.  And suddenly you feel your hand warm also.  And suddenly you feel your head starting to get warm.  And your feet get warm.  Because you condense the chi and it starts to collect.  So more chi comes in and you have more chi now.  So the chi begins to link between the soul and the spirit.  And the same chi starts to go up higher and connect to the source.  We call it the Creator, the Power Source.  Because we’re already wired with a button.  So you have the original force connecting to the primordial Source.  And your heart also has a press button.  It’s born with it.  Boom, you’re directly connected to the Father in Heaven.  You don’t have to do anything; you’re born with it.  But we don’t know it, so in older times we had to go to a priest to pray for us.  But the Tao discovered many thousand of years ago that you don’t need anybody.  When Jesus came he said you do not need a priest anymore: If you call my name, you can connect directly to the Father in Heaven. 
Iain:  Okay, how is it with you these days after all these years of practise?  Do you find
pretty automatically you’re pulling the chi energy down or do you still work to do that?

Mantak:  Yes, I mean, the first thing is to connect.  The first thing is to connect.  Like the internet.  When I travel it’s very interesting, you know.

Iain:  So you’re plugging your computer in, and you’re plugging your chi in as well.

Mantak:  Now we have wireless, we have wireless.

Iain:  You have wireless chi. [laughs]

Mantak:  Now everything is wireless. Chi is wireless.

Iain:  Yeah.

Mantak:  So when I go in and there is wireless internet, I am very happy.  You turn it on and connect – boom.  Then you can download.  You have to know the exact address that you want, the question that you want to ask, the thing you want.  You type it in, it connects, and you can download it.

Iain:  And you’re personally still doing the same thing, or it’s not happening automatically, is it?

Mantak:  Yes, it, I mean, it often comes by itself.  Sometimes when I meditate, so much information comes in and I have to choose.  Sometimes you have to choose; sometimes it’s too much and some things you don’t want.  And I know exactly what I want.  And I pick it up, like when you download; you can’t download everything or you’ll have too much. You have to weed out what you don’t like, what you don’t want.  Like when you have a question, you can search for anything in this world with Google.  But up there [pointing upward], when you connect to it – I don’t know how many hundred million times bigger it is than Google.  Because the knowledge is so big and vast up there.  All you have to do is connect first.  So you have to feel you’re connected. 

Iain:  Okay.  We only have a few minutes left.  Just briefly, in one of the books – I haven’t read the book – but I read in some research I did before this programme that Iron Shirt: Chi Kung has to do with immortality.  Is that correct?

Mantak:  It’s part of the practise.  The Iron Shirt is like this: when you get a flat tire you cannot run your car.  So what’s in the tire is the chi or air.  And the pressure of the air.  So you mechanically pump air in, and it doesn’t get out.  Okay?  So Iron Shirt: Chi Kung is very simple: we have cavities.  We have the abdominal cavity, we have the pelvic cavity, we have many empty spaces.  And normally we have one bar of pressure.  So our body has to create some chi to protect this pressure.  If you go out to the water, 2 bar or 3 bar, you have more pressure and the chi or we call nitrogen have more compression.  So you train, so it’s very simple: you inhale 21% oxygen, 79% nitrogen, okay?  Nitrogen can stay in the body, but oxygen and CO2 have to get out.  Now, I think there is a connection with the chi.  So we inhale and your mind power says, “I’m going to pack the chi in the empty space.”  Like you get an egg and you throw it on the floor; it breaks, right?  But if you take a balloon and put the egg in it and blow it up and you throw it, it might break, but if you put another bigger balloon, blow the air in it and put the egg in, now you can kick the balloon that has the egg in it and it won’t break.  And that’s how it is with Iron Shirt: Chi Kung.  So I inhale, I pack, I condense the chi, I get the chi pressure and blow it up; it expands the chi for me and I can protect my organs.  And you have many layers or fascia that you can store chi in the fascia layer and later on every organ has fascia wrapped around the organs.  So all you have to do is pack the chi in, pack the chi in, and it starts to have chi around the organs.  And you have empty space, you put the chi there, but you have to train the chi to go in and not get out.  That’s the first thing.

Iain:  That’s right.

Mantak:  So you pack it in like a football.  If you pump the air in and take the needle out, all the air goes out and there’s no way to practise.  So you pack the chi in and you start to feel a chi pressure expand and it’s protecting you and you have more chi moving.  And now we know that nitrogen can protect organs like when you have an organ transplant and you’re going to send it somewhere you have to put it in nitrogen.  And now we know that blood, if you want to keep the blood very long, you have to put nitrogen into it.  So the Tao also discovered that.  In order to pack this organ and protect it.  And later on when you go into the higher level when you want to leave your body, now it is proven that if you pack enough nitrogen into it, your organs and body will be protected.

Iain:  Okay, and what age are you intending to live to?

Mantak:  I mean, I think we can live up to 120 very easy.

Iain:  Really?

Mantak:  Yes.

Iain:  Even in the west?  120 years old?

Mantak:  Yes, if you learn enough.  If you go into the sexual energy part because if you learn how to conserve the sexual energy…

Iain:  And not waste it, yeah.

Mantak:  And multiply it and transform it.  The sexual organ is material, and the sperm is material.  If you know how to transform the sexual organ, the sperm and eggs into chi, you have abundant chi and you live very long with good and healthy chi.  And that’s what I do.

Iain:  We’re going to have to finish there.  You’ve given a lot of tasters, which I really appreciate, and I think for people that have been watching, if they’re interested, there are lots of things to follow up here.  I know for myself there is.  So thanks very much for coming to talk to us on conscious TV, Mantak, I appreciate that.  I’m just going to show some of your books again, some of your 40 books that you have written: Iron Shirt: Chi Kung; Chi Nei Tsang; The Multi-Orgasmic Man; Transform Stress into Vitality and The Inner Structure of Tai Chi.  Thank you again, Mantak.

Mantak:  Thank you.

Iain:  Thank you for watching conscious TV, and I hope we’ll see you again soon.  Good-bye.


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