Jürgen Ziewe - ‘Vistas Of Infinity’
Interview by Renate McNay
Renate: Hello and welcome to Conscious TV. I’m Renate McNay and my guest today is Jürgen Ziewe.
Jürgen: Hello Renate.
Renate: Nice to have you here.
Jürgen: Thank you.
Renate: Jürgen is a commercial artist. He wrote three. The first one is Vistas of Infinity, and it has a great subtitle, which is How to Enjoy Life When You Are Dead. We’ll find out about that. Then the Multidimensional Man and The Ten Minute Moment.
So Jürgen, I was looking forward to talking to you about the out of body experiences. As you know, I did a lot of travelling myself, so I wanted to know about your experiences. Maybe we’ll start with you telling us how it all started.
Jürgen: Yes. I mentioned earlier—I spoke to Iain—I had an intensive experience before. After that I started having spontaneous out of body experiences.
The first one came truly out of the blue and I didn’t really know what actually had taken place because I didn’t know about any of these phenomena. It was quite unsettling, really.
Renate: So, what happened? Did you go somewhere? Or you just went out and looked at yourself?
Jürgen: Yes, I suddenly found myself.. it was early in the morning. I suddenly found myself in front of my mother’s house and I couldn’t figure out how I got there because she lived eighteen miles away from it. I was truly confused because, also, I could see a 360 degree vision. Everything was so real. I had no explanation for it.
The first things was, how did I get here? And how do I get back? Do I have to take the bus or something like that?
When the panic started setting in, the confusion, I suddenly found myself back in my body. There was literally no break in consciousness; I was awake and when I got back in my body I was still awake.
This lead to me finding out about what possible phenomena could I have experienced.
Jürgen: Gradually, I started reading about out of body experiences at a certain library..
Renate: Did it happen more often or was this just a one-off experience?
Jürgen: The first one happened and startled me so much that I needed to find out what happened. Once I found out by reading a book by Kassa Neda, that was what had taken place, I became very curious about it.
Shortly afterwards, we moved to England and in the English language there were a lot more books so I found a couple of books by English authors—Keratin Meldoo and Oliver Fox. They were probably the only books available at the time on the subject.
Then I became really curious about the whole thing and I started experimenting with it. The first time it happened, on the first occasion, was when I felt a tremendous thunder, noise, in my head. It was quite disconcerting. But after a while it became quite natural.
I used to roll out of my body, then look around or go out the room and then look at myself from the back and re-enter my body. I started a series of experiments after that.
Renate: So you rolled out that way and not leaving?
Jürgen: No, that wasn’t one of the message which was suggested in the book. I thought that worked really well.
Renate: It happened only spontaneously or you put an intent?
Jürgen: Initially when I wanted to help, I focused intensively on it. I put an intent or meditated. Very often, it happened when I went back to sleep. I then became aware of my astral body after—there was usually some noise associated with it—and I knew when the time was ready to leave my body.
Renate: What is the astral body?
Jürgen: Well, at first.. at that time I didn’t know much about it.. I read a bit about it. Much later, I found out that we have several bodies, several energy bodies.
At first, in the first few weeks, I found that I was able to project out of the body and still could see my body. Later I came up with a theory that, when that happens, we are possibly connected to a body which is very close to the physical body—the etheric body—which still has physical senses and manners of the physical reality.
I find when this stage is overcome, that we become more naturally attuned to our astral body, then we don’t enter any more—the physical astral or the etheric body. We go straight into the astral plane and then it’s from then on that we go on to visit other dimensions. So, we are not in contact any more with the physical reality.
That’s how that I find that people who have near death experiences or had an accident—they can still see their body because they are seeing their etheric body. But more experienced astral travelers, they skip through this stage and go straight into astral body.
Renate: So you travel into other dimensions of reality..
Renate: But you stop travelling in this dimension?
Jürgen: Yes, yes.
That’s where a lot of the confusion happens because people fear if you have an out of body experience you should be able to make tests then confirm it. For example, you go to a place or you read a number or make certain observations then report back—that would prove that you have an out of body experience. But in reality that’s not how it works.
Because we enter via our astral body into a parallel world, which is a copy of the physical world, or a completely different world.
Renate: So this is the other world that we go after we die?
Jürgen: Yes, yes. That’s where I sort of met my mother after she died, and various other people. I talk to them.
Renate: So this world looks similar to our world?
Renate: What’s the difference? Do people know that they are dead?
Jürgen: Well that’s a big thing.
First of all, I found that the astral world looks so similar to the physical; that it’s almost impossible to tell it apart. Everything, down to the minute scratches or grasses or grains of sand, everything looks very physical and it feels very physical.
Initially I tried to figure out what the difference actually is. So I did tests. Like, could I actually cut through a lamp post with my hand? I felt there was a resistance but it was possible. So there’s a materiality to the astral world but it’s more dynamic. It’s usually affected by our will or consciousness.
Of course, much later I found out there are an infinite number different worlds we can visit, different realities, which feel exactly as physically as this reality does.
Renate: And the people go out to work and have children and all..
Jürgen: Well, yes. People have children, in terms that I visited families with children. And, I visited nurseries—places where children grew up.
It’s almost exactly like here, even to the extent that there are buses, taxis, even supermarkets. The things is, of course, you wonder why should you have supermarkets and things like that? But everything that exists here has got a copy there which is also visited by people who have died or are asleep. So they spend time carrying on with their work or carrying on with their jobs while they are asleep. Other people who are in the habit of having a job, let’s say, as a taxi driver, they may still feel there is still a service for them on the next level.
Renate: What’s the purpose behind having a copy of this reality?
Jürgen: I think the main reason is that everything.. everything there exists has got a higher energy field around it which it manifests on a different level. It’s usually created out of habits—what we are used to; our ideas—and while we are engaged in this world we create, throughout thoughts, a copy this world which has existence on a finer dimensional level. We are maintaining this astral world while being physically alive.
Jürgen: But of course, that’s not the end of it.
What I found out later is that we live in a multidimensional world. So everything has got a copy of itself on different dimensions, on higher and higher dimensions.
I notice that when I went to my mother’s house, on the first astral level it looked almost identical to my mothers. And, when I went onto a finer, higher level which was more beautiful and lighter, the house also looked more beautiful and the garden was more profuse. As you go higher, the house will actually be like a place—there may not be an actual physical house anymore. There may just be shrubs and flowers but you can still feel the atmosphere of the house.
I found.. it’s almost like everything has got a soul aspect to it. Everything has got a point of origin and it’s connected right through to the highest state of consciousness. Everything is connected in a vertical line.
It’s a big, very big, subject. There’s so much more to explore and to explore and to write about.
Renate: I know. You have.. I have so many notes I don’t know where to start..
But you had this experience where you saw an incredible structure in space and that’s where you saw your multidimensional being. There was the Now, the past, and the future, and you could zoom into any of it and it became reality.
Jürgen: Yes, that’s a really interesting concept which really needs a lot more exploring because everything, every object, that exists is also infinite.
I remember Robert Valkner, he mentioned in one of the interviews, that he looked at his hand and then he saw the pore of his skin. The pore became a canyon which he could travel.
This is the thing, everything is infinite and everything can expand infinitely into something else.
The other things is, everything that exists and everything that has existed is also simultaneously still there.
Jürgen: For example, I had experiences of a past life. I could see it in terms of it actually happening in the here and now. First of all I saw a person who was walking along a path and then I recognized that I was the person. At that moment, there were two of me—there was a person who was walking along the path, who I was.. who I could study all his thoughts.. his identify and everything, I was completely aware of it.
Then there was the other me, which was the observer, who knew that this was an out of body experience. But the person who was walking along the path was totally oblivious of the observer, and the observer couldn’t have any control or influence of the person.
So, basically it was a connection to another reality which to us seems to be in the past, but was actually happening in the present moment here and now.
There’s a big mystery of consciousness which is so difficult to explain and so difficult to understand because we seek reality on a three-dimensional level. Whereas consciousness is on a multidimensional level.
Renate: I had, myself, a very similar experience where I saw I was just sitting in a garden somewhere. All of s sudden, all of me formed this balloon which had—I’m trying to translate; certain things you have difficulty finding words—but it was like a net around this balloon and I saw myself in every cross point of the net in a different time, in a different situation.
I saw, in detail, how I looked like and what I was doing. I spoke about that with my teacher then, and he said, ‘well that seems to be a common experience, which is called the indlas net. I don’t know if you heard about it?
Jürgen: Yes, I have actually experienced it very similar to how you experience it.
A big cosmic web..
Jürgen: Even to the extent that I found.. that’s the other curious thing..
I found that at each point of the net, we form the centre of the universe..
Jürgen: And each object is also at a centre of a web. So each atom is basically the centre of the universe from which everything radiates out.
My experience was that I found this is how people identify themselves as an individual, as an ego. And, to them, serves in this experience creates the identity which makes them the most important thing in the world because the whole universe seems to be..
Jürgen: Coming out from this point in the web.
Renate: I remember when I saw that, I had an incredible shock. I thought, ‘Oh my God, how do I get out of that?!’ That was interesting. Then, it was something like a banner coming in and it said, on this banner, ‘you’re out of everything by being completely here, where you are right now.’
Renate: That’s what you spoke earlier, in the interview with Iain. You have to just focus on the now.
Jürgen: Yes, that’s right.
Renate: It’s like everything else collapses. You don’t hold it.
Jürgen: No. Also, it gives you this tremendous overview of things. You see the whole thing in context.
The other thing I found was that I could also see—like you did—the past, all my past lives. Each one was a reality you could go back into.
Also you see all your potentials and everything. You can only see that when you have this innovative view of being identified or being tuned into the present, to the present moment. Then you can see everything in context.
So tell us a little bit about your adventures in other realities. What was the most beautiful adventure? What was the most scary?
Jürgen: There’s a very strong desire to find out as much as I could. So what I did, the moment I had my out of body experience, the first thing I did was focus on the ground, on the detail until I’d established full waking consciousness. Then, after I established it, I found I could extend it by refocusing until it became almost natural, until it was more natural to be in that state than it would to be in my physical state..
Renate: Did your physical body suffer..?
Renate: In any sense, with you being all the time gone?
Jürgen: No. No, quite the opposite. I felt really, totally, at peace.
At one state, one of the earlier experiences, I actually extended the time. I was out of my body for six hours. I left my body around twelve o’clock at night and I came back at six in the morning. During this time I became more and more aware of my out of body state; it became more and more natural. At certain times I felt.. I wondered.. whether I had died or whether I could even go back because it felt it needed more effort to get back into my body than it would to actually remain here.
So, I went back to my body a couple of times to check whether I was still alive.
Later, I used this method of extending my out of body experiences by having a work schedule. I would interview people, dead people. I would talk to my mother..
Renate: How was that, finding your mother?
Jürgen: That was really interesting..
Renate: And she recognized you?
Jürgen: Yes. What happened when she died, she suffered from severe depression before she died. For a couple of years I couldn’t reach her. I tried to reach her.. I could only reach my grandmother, who was with her. But she told me that she (my mother) is like.. encapsuled, depression. There was nothing she could do. We just had to wait.
About six months later, after I saw her the last time in this state, I called her. I met her and this time she was completely the way I remembered her. We met in a beautiful park and the first thing we did was hug each other. I immediately recognized my mother by her hug, by the warmth.
Then started talking for the first time, after she died, for ages. After that I met her on a regular basis and I saw how she progressed in the last twenty years… what she was up to and how my interest in spiritual matters reflected back on her. Then she made her own path, followed her own path. Whereas, when she was still alive, she wouldn’t talk about any of this.
I found the same happened when I met other relatives of mine. I could talk to them and they would communicate and tell me about what happened to them, how they’ve progressed and so on.
At the same token, rather than finding out, exploring the astral levels, I would sometimes use people to interview them. By talking to them I could look into their mind and I would experience what they experience or participate in their knowledge. So I would find out things about their life this way.
The same happened once, when I went into a big city. I wondered why it was a big hotel. I ended up as a rufi and I wondered why there were waiters, servants. Everyone in this world could just have a luxurious holiday.. until I found out that people were seeking out to provide service for other people because that’s what they needed; they needed to be able to serve other people.
One woman that I’d talked to, directed me to a waiter. I decided to talk to him and by talking to him, he took me into his past. I relived, through him talking to me, his past history where he came out of a really sinister level. Because he killed people, he was a very dark figure and he had to work his way up. He told me what happened and how many.. how long it took him for somebody to rescue him out of this realm and gradually introduce him into this realm where he was able to serve people and learn the art of servicing. Be of service rather than being selfish.
Renate: So there are dark places and then there is light.. so heaven and hell?
Jürgen: Yes, in a way.
The way I summarize this whole afterlife experience is by when our physical body dies, our inside—our inner mind—becomes our external reality.
Renate: That’s a very frightening thing.
Jürgen: Yes. So if people are negative or they have got issues or do things which harm other people, the negative inner life is reflected in the outside world. So the environment that they are attracted to are usually very dark, very bleak, places. There may not be any life at all. It may just be derelict towns or dessert. I saw that these places, no matter what they did, they couldn’t make it any better..
Renate: They are trapped?
Jürgen: They are trapped unless they change their mindset or attract people who help them change to change their mindset.
But the opposite is also true. People who have got very positive aspects to themselves and I think probably the majority of people probably do because they need to get on together. They very often just skip these regions altogether. It’s very much a matter of finding a place we are used to, or even better.
Of course, I would say the positive dimensions, they are much more abundant, unimaginably so, than we can imagine them to be here..
Renate: Jürgen we have.. we have in our unconscious so much trauma and negativity.. How can we.. just the thought that all that will be revealed in my next life..?
Jürgen: I find the discovery I made is that somehow, when we are confronted with our unconscious on the next level—which usually materializes in some ways—it’s much easier. In some ways it’s easier to deal with because you can see it better, you can see it more. And, people who are practicing meditation or are on a spiritual path, they can transcend this more easily.
Sometimes I found, just by chanting a mantra, I found very quickly that if I use the out of body state to carry on with my spiritual practice with meditation, it takes me immediately out of a negative situation I may have been in. Or, it takes me into a very high state of consciousness, a Samadhi-like state.
It’s a lot easier in lots of ways, I found. What the difficulty is that people don’t know how to do that or how to access it. Sometimes it can be as little as a command or an intent to get out of the situations. Lucid dreaming can teach us a lot about this state..
Renate: What would you say to somebody who says ‘I cannot stop my negative thinking..’ and he had a terrible childhood and that’s all still hanging around? What advise can you give?
Jürgen: I think, my personal.. the first thing I would say is are there guilt issues?
Jürgen: Guilt. If people suffer from guilt issues, the first thing is to find a sense of forgiveness toward yourself, to find some form of a positive lever which could either be forgiveness or it could be appreciation or gratitude. Find some sort of positive level which you focus on and then help yourself..
Renate: Life up..?
Jürgen: Lift yourself out of it.
And, on the astral plane, it looks literally like a light that you can latch onto, hold onto. Or sometimes it can have the appearance of a ladder which you can climb, physically. You can also feel it; if you feel it in your heart, you can ignite this positive aspect. You can actually see it unfolding, you can see it growing and getting stronger. It becomes very visible.
You get a positive feedback from your environment. So, if you have a positive feeling, the environment lights up. Suddenly you find a flower may spring up..
Jürgen: Certainly that positive feedback reinforces you to have more positive feelings. In a way, that actually helps you to get out of it.
Then, there’s help from other people. Other people who come to you, and they can give their light to change the environment and energize you—give you positive feeling. The only thing is you have to be ready to take this step.
I’ve went into places where—which I described in the book—where there was a group of people and they wanted to leave the place. They were ready to get out. I said, ‘all you have to do is have positive feelings, then you rise out of it.’ I tried to demonstrate it. Before I knew, three people are clinging onto me; they wanted to have a lift out of their place. But their negative energy pulled me back down to earth and I couldn’t do anything.
Then, I tried to explain to them that the feeling has to come from within. They have to be ready, to work on it.
A lot of work is done by astral helpers. They go into these regions..
Renate: Like the Bodhisattva..
Jürgen: Yes, they go into these regions..
Renate: On the astral level, yes.
Jürgen: That’s right.
One scene I observed was there was a music band. I was in a very dark place looking around and then I suddenly saw a light in the town square. I followed the light and there was a band playing, making music. They came from a higher level, just playing music. All around them in a circumference of about thirty meters or so, there was light. Flowers started growing and people started dancing and it gradually spread. The atmosphere in this region was lifted and the people around this group of musicians suddenly had the extra energy for them to progress further..
Renate: Yes, but in a way you have similar situations here, in this world. If you walk into a house, or into a room, and you feel uplifted and you feel good. Then you meet people, or places, where you feel dragged down.
Did you ever try to teach out of body? To take somebody out of the body?
Jürgen: No, I haven’t here, on the physical level. No, I have never. I’d never see myself as a teacher..
Renate: I did. For several years I did seminars. I had the ability to take people out of their body because I thought people need to experience that they are not only their body.
Jürgen: Yes, that’s a great..
Renate: I did it by leaving my own body and then talking to the group. And so, it worked energetically.. could tune into my vibration.
Jürgen: I have friends who can do that but I’ve never really gone into this area. I sort of saw myself more as a reporter doing things.. write about it and report back.
My biggest ambition was to eliminate the unknown and talk about it so people who are confronted with it have a little bit of a compass and know what can be done..
Renate: Yes, yes..
Jürgen: Where they can end up..
And also, the most important thing I found is that we really need to work now, while we are still alive, to develop these positive attitudes, to look in terms of how we can serve rather than serve our selves. How we can Enright life, and so on.. And focus on the greater good.. Or become aware because most people are not even aware. They act or behave as if they are in a dream; they follow their instincts.
This awareness is really important. When we become aware of what we are—not just a physical entity—this will help us to progress much faster once we have left this world.
Renate: Do you really think there is hope? At the moment there are not many people are who are..
Jürgen: It looks pretty dark but I think there is a trickle down effect. The more people experience it, the more people are on this mindset, the more it will trickle down on, perhaps, a completely unconscious level. That’s how I feel.
I don’t see things quite negative, as negative as some people see it. I see it quite positively. I feel there is a definite trickle down effect and a shift toward a greater awareness. Sometimes—at the moment—it feels as if it’s going the opposite way but I don’t think it is. It’s just working its way through the darker spheres, to come to the surface.
Renate: How was your out of body experiences important for your realization of who you are? And for enlightenment? I know you don’t like to use the word enlightenment but..
Jürgen: What I found was that when I was practicing the meditation I had these out of body experiences. And, I had very profound spiritual experiences during the out of body state—which were on the same level as the first spontaneous experience I ever had. The same level of clarity and cosmic consciousness which I experienced.
Of course that happened on an inner level so I was seeing things, let’s say the external aspect of the higher states, of the surrounding and the areas. One could say it’s the archetypal heaven state. It’s a state of consciousness where you feel you are totally at home; it’s like a big homecoming. There is no strangeness anymore. There is no outside. Everything is reflected in the environment.
You have got a connection to everything and everything is alive an conscious. So the outside world, so to speak or the environment, is alive as consciousness and intelligence. You find a connection to everything you look at. And, everything you look at or captures your attention, you can get into and find its essence. It doesn’t matter whether it’s some other person or whether it’s an object or an animal. There’s always a possibility to get into the essence of everything that’s in your environment.
The same with perception. Instead of seeing things—let’s say, looking at the flowers—instead of looking at the flower, you become the flower. You can feel what the flower is like, what the flower-ness is all about. You can feel every part of it and understand it. You also, simultaneously, know the origin.
It’s a completely different way of perception. Instead of looking at it from the outside, you actually become.. when you see a colour, you become the colour. You know what a colour feels like. If it’s red, you know what redness feels like. If you hear a sound, instead of listening to the sound, you become the sound; you feel like the sound. You know what the sound can do and how it vibrates the other sounds.
Then there’s the perception of the higher consciousness. You no longer are a perceiver; you are actually the innovator of the world..
Renate: Is that the level you talk about, I think, in one of your books when, for the first time felt you are a human?
Jürgen: Yes, I think that is the origin part of where we are. It’s coming back to the origin, our essence. Our human essence is basically rooted in the consciousness which is universal.
The way I can see it is like we are an aspect of this consciousness, which has individualized itself and uses our structure to gain experience, to manifest and do all sorts of things. But, at the basis of it all, is this humanness, this essence, this home-ness; what we really are—the authentic being state.
Once we recognize that, we also recognize that in other people. And we cannot get away from it. At that point it becomes impossible to see people as strangers. Instead of saying, “who is this person..” and be fearful; the first contact point is seeing what you are sharing with this person. The world instinctively becomes a much friendlier place, and much more familiar..
Renate: The essence of the human, would you say that is God’s heart?
Jürgen: Yes, I think so. I think you could say there is one heartbeat, really. You could say it like that, yes.
Renate: I cannot find it at the moment.. You said, “We have to go through all this to find God’s heart or our human essence..”
Oh, here.. “We want to enter the heart of God but have to go through multiple dimensions, million fold more complex and grand than our physical dimension and can be distracted through them. Every thought is a shape and sound..”
Jürgen: Yes, what I was trying to say is in order to find the essence, really, is to actually find the heart. To me, that has always been the shortcut to everything. Life is so complex and multidimensional where we can easily get lost in, unless we have a contact to the authentic beingness of us—which I always felt is achieved by the heart and the positive energies which are connected with the heart.. Love.. Appreciation.. Service.. These positive attitudes..
I always suggest to people when they do meditation, to bring the heart into it because it also helps to hold the focus of meditation much more easily because it is driven by an emotion—which is a very positive emotion—rather than focusing on an abstract idea..
Renate: Bringing the heart in means, when we meditate, to focus on gratitude or..?
Jürgen: We could start with it. But feel the energy in this place here. Then allow it to grow and unfold until we reach the point of being, of stillness. That’s how I see it; that’s how I experience it.
Then I can easily maintain the focus, just by feeling the stillness of everything.
What I am finding now is that, that is actually the base level of reality. This love aspect of it is everywhere, the base.. And we said, of course, we have access to the inner joy of everything. That’s why I always feel, beyond everything happening on this earth is, there is a base level—the base level of reality which I think is actually bliss. We are just obscuring it by our fears, our anxieties, or self interest, our different agendas, our problems.. upbringing or what have you.
This base level, or the bedrock of reality, I find is actually bliss. It’s just obscured. That is a status we should really be focusing on..
Renate: But then it’s our unconscious which pulls us out all the time..
Jürgen: Yes, that is what we need to actually work with, with kindness, with generosity and understanding. Because these are aspects of our self which need to be laminated. But, we already carry the light which allows us to do that. The quickest way to get rid of darkness is by turning on the light.
Jürgen: My idea of dealing with the shadow side, which comes out of our unconscious, by simply boldly facing it and forgiveness with a positive attitude. Perhaps even a sense of gratitude that we say thank you before giving me the chance to make it clear or to forgive, or to mend, or whatever comes up.
Renate: It feels almost like you are in a state of surrender.
Jürgen: Yes, that is a prevailing state, the surrender state.
That was the first thing, I thought the most important step, if you want to be anchored in the base level of reality, we need to surrender to it. We cannot achieve it or get it. We cannot get it.
We have to surrender to it because when we have a spiritual experience it is not us who is having the spiritual experience; it is a sense of a blessing or..
Jürgen: Grace which actually takes us onboard or takes us out of our self and unites us. So we can’t actually do anything; we just can prepare the way to allow this channel to open.
That’s why the only thing we can do is just surrender everything. If you live in the state of surrender towards the reality that is then we are closest to it.
Renate: Do you feel pretty free? Or do you still have challenges?
Jürgen: I only have challenges when they come up. I don’t have everyday challenges..
Renate: But you live in a very peaceful place?
Jürgen: Yes. I think so because I don’t have anything that is holding me back. I don’t have anything that I feel I need to sort out. But it hasn’t always been like that. It’s a very laborious and long process..
Jürgen: Yes. And when it comes up, you have to be grateful for it to come and show you because it shows there are still certain things you need to deal with.
I would say when you are in this state of being, then you have reached the human level, I would say, the natural human level. And because it’s a natural state, once you tune into it, it’s much easier to maintain.
Now I am finding it hard to even remember the other shadow sides or the past. I can’t relate to it anymore. If people dig out things out of the past, I have no relationship to it anymore. That’s the way it is because you live in the present moment and everything is new all the time. There is no repeat. There is nothing that comes back from the past to haunt you because you are..
Jürgen: Yes, you are liberated. That’s the greatest aspect of it. You freed yourself of it and now you have the time to be a human being and do all the things which human beings can enjoy without being afraid.
Renate: Beautiful! But we have to stop now.
I always like when you said—we don’t have time to talk about it in more detail—but you say ‘Every morning I wake up. This is the first day of my infinite life.”
Jürgen: Yes. Yes.
Renate: It’s true.
Okay. Well, thank you Jürgen. It was very interesting, the interview. I will show the books again.. there is Vistas of Infinity, The Ten Minute Moment and Multidimensional Man.
I also would like to tell you that Iain did an interview with Jürgen before our interview, so please look out for that. It’s very interesting and a completely different aspect of the dimension—your dimension.
Well, thank you very much.
Jürgen: Thank you.
Renate: Thank you for watching Conscious TV.
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